Ben Affleck



Details, Nov 2004

Now that it's been the better part of a year since you and Jlo broke up, can you look back and describe what all of the media attention was like?

It felt like a constant oppressive seige. Every second were were somewhere--anywhere--it felt suffocating. It's kind of like asphyxiating from carbon monoxide poisoning. A similar thing happens to the quality of your life. All of the attention we got ultimately poisoned most experiences. It prevented us--me-- from experiencing life in any other capacity other than that of being something like the subject in a science experiment gone awry.

How aware of it all were you while it was happening?

I sort of tried to live in denial of it, a little bit, by not exposing myself too much to all of the coverage. I stopped watching television and reading a paper if I thought my name might show up in it. The real problem was that it wasn't something that I was creating. It was something I was resisting, and yet it developed its own momentum. What's funny is that in the end I'm sort of blamed for it. It's not something I wanted to foist on a weary American public. Still, I deliberately and consciously decided--definitely at some cost--that I wasn't going to change my life or become guarded. I was going to do what I thought was right for me to do, regardless of how it might look or how it might be interpreted. Maybe I was a little too dogmatic in that regard. Looking back, it's clear that I paid a high price for it.

There were times, however, when you seemed to be trying to poke fun at all the coverage you guys were receiving.

Yeah, like with the music video. When we first were dating and we saw how much attention was paid to absolutely everything we did, I figured it would be funny--a spoof on our life as seen though the eyes of the tabloids. We wanted to make fun of it. We were excited, you know. We thought, "W'll do it on a yacht and all these ridiculous places." But it was taken in the most unironic way. When that happened, I realized, "We're in trouble here. This is not something that can be managed, and it's going to just spin out of control." I can remember several different engagement announcements on the cover of the New York Post that were right there with some headline about Saddam Hussein. I just thought, It's madness. True madness. I began to sense this gleeful anticipation--people were out there thinking--"Something's gonna happen here and it's gonna be fun to watch. Get the popcorn." It all becomes kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy becaue you're put in a position where it's impossible to succeed. It's hard to make a relationship work under normal circumstances. Add fame and attention, and you're fucked. I mean, look, that's not the first relationship I've had that didn't work out. And those other relationships didn't even have to bear that kind of scrutiny.

It seemed like every aspect of your llife was scrutinized. I even saw an analysis of how you were dressing. There were photos of you before JLO next to ones of you during your relationship, and everything, including your hair, was being discussed.

It occurs to me now that there was a certain kind of perception of me and how I looked during my relationship with Jen. Whether I had become more street or more black or more slicked back or more of a male diva or more of a self-indulgent, who-does-he-think-he-is movie star. ANd it was all kind of rooted int he notion that "this guy's changed" or She's changed him." Whereas here I was living my life, feeling as though it's actually fairly consistent with who I was--not that I always knew exactly. I mean, I never had some rock solid sense of identity that I was always so sure of. I am certainly capable of being insecure then as I was five years ago. Like there was all this stuff being written about my dressing like Puffy because I was wearing track suits to the gym. I've always worn them. Look at me, man, I'm wearing one right now. That said, I suppose each of us influenced the other in many ways. That's how relationships work. But in the end, it's just a fucking T-shirt or sweater or pair of jeans. All the decisions I made about my life at that time were intensely personal ones. Zero of them had to do with career, clothing, hair, image.

Do you think your rep was damaged by the intense media attention?

I think we both suffered a great deal. But I can honestly tell you that I don't think it's an issue that ever crossed either of our minds. Any time you evalulate the people who are in some sort of relationship, you neglect to take into account what actually happens between those people, which you obviously know nothing about. Instead, you use outside indicators like clothes and cars and hair to make ridiculous conclusions.

Speaking of cars, what's up with your buying Jen's mom a Bentley?

Jen bought here mother a Mercedes. Here's a perfect example of the press talking shit. She buys her mother a car and it becomes me buying her a Bentley.

There are people who think that all the attention that comes with fame would be exciting. It's a fantasy to many people. What does it really feel like?

I felt self-conscious in ways that I never thought were possible. It's the worst kind of vulnerability. It reminds me of being 18 years old and being a new student at the Univ. of Vermont, not knowing anybody and not even knowing which lunch table to sit at without feeling like a jackass. I felt like everyone was watching me, judging me. Feeling like people are gunning for you all the time is not fun or remotely pleasant. I didn't spend a lot of time basking in the glow of some sort of media spotlight because I was always attuned to the fact that it was a suspicious attention--the anticipation of some Schadenfraude to be enjoyed down the road. As I grew increasingly uncomfortable, it built its own momentum and became something that was more and more difficult to reconcile with my idea of how I wanted to live my life.

How are you living your life these days? What's different?

I'm able to breathe a little bit and try to see things for what they are. Over the course of the last year and a half, I couldn't stop and say, "What do I want to do? How do I want to live?" Well, I'm doing that now and I'm finding the answers kind of surprising to me.

Do you want to stop acting?

I might continue to act, but it'll be different kinds of acting. Becoming a working actor was very important to me. That means more to me than you know, and not in a materialistic kind of way. My fatehr was a guy who was a writer and wanted to be a director. He never had any money. And so that goal of being able to make a living as an actor was a really big one for me, I think bigger than I realized. But now that I've done that, I'm not sure it's really what I want. It may look great from the outside, but in some cases you're not happy, you're not enjoying your life. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm sitting around crying in my cereal. I've had a great life so far. I've also made more money than I ever thought imaginable.

Critics are saying you need a hit right now. They're saying in order for you to bounce back from Gigli and all the press your relationship received, you need a blockbuster.

I don't want that. I never really wanted that. I suppose that if I want to try to just perpetually chase that elusive No.1 weekend, or being the most popular guy, or whatever bullshit it is, then I would be focused on that. Some actors get that way when they become too obsessed with their paycheck, no pun intended. You've got to have the top movie so you can make more dough. It's like, how much money do you need? It's an ego thing...you want to get paid more than the next guy. It's ridiculous amounts of fucking money we're talking here. I guess I would need a big hit it that were my priority, but I would like to be proud of what I do more than I would like it to be a big blockbuster. Rarely do the two overlap. I've had both and on balance I take pride.

Do you not want to be a movie star anymore?

That shit is really empty, man. I mean really fucking empty. And it only ever made me feel, in a weird kind of way, kind of fragile. Oen of the reason I really like this movie (SC) is because it's so radically different from anything I've ever done before. It's a straight comedy. That's why I love doing SNL. It's a departure from me. I'm tir of doing the types of movies I'm best known for. I'd like to try and stay away from the big studio films for a while. Or at least not be the leading man. I don't want to feel like a monkey with an organ grinder out there on Access Hollywood, you know, once a quarter--that just has no interest for me and it makes my life worse. When Gigli became this spectacular, galactic, punchline of a bomb, it was liberating more than anything. I don't want to spend the next 20 years of my life chasing something I now know I don't want.

Would you pursue a career in politics?

One of the things about politics that's offputting to me--besides all the glad-handing and self-promotionm which I just feel like I've had enough of for one life--is the fact that it becomes so petty, vicious, and small-minded. I mean, what a nightmare. I've been in a position where I've been attacked in the press for, I mean, nothing, I'm just an actor, you know. Who really cares? Imagine the kind of vitriol, the complete disregard for facts, that would come if I ran for office. People want to make up stories now, what if they had a political agenda? What if they had a bunch of money? No way. I'm safer trying to continue to help raise money and going to rallies and talking to people in the press, where I can make the case for issues--the things that I believe in . Candidacy itself, to be honest with you, just seems too vicious. Particularly after my experiences these past months.

You've emerged as one of Hollywood's loudest political voices in this year's presidential campaign.

I've found that the reputation of Hollywood being full of activists and people getting involved in politics is the exception rather than the rule. And I can understand why a lot of people out here aren't speaking up. They don't want to scare viewers and moviegoers with their politics. That's fair. The truth is, you know, I'm at a place where there's not much left that the press can take away from me. (Note from Mimi--To here him acknowledge that really upset me. I mean, it hurt.)

Give me one reason why you've been so vocal in your support for John Kerry.

I don't think Kerry will be as self-serving as Bush has been. I also think it's a genuine injustice when the wealthiest Americans--people like me--whohave benefitted from the opportunities this country provides, are asked to pay less thanour fair share. And you know, I saved more than a million dollars in taxes last year because of Dubya. I mean, that's a lot more outrageous than any Bentley, than any ring, than anything else.

I know you're sick to death of talking about your love life, but I have to ask, what's going on with you these days?

After all I've told you about the hell of being in a public relationship, do you really think I'd talk about that?

Can you at least touch on the idea of sex in Hollywood? To most men around the world, you're living the fantasy life--fame beautiful women, sex whenever you want it.

The thing they've got to understand about that, particularly the way it works with men and sex in Hollywood, is that it really is The Wizard of Oz. It's more about the perception of things. It's like Hollywood Western sets--it's a facade. What really exists is real life, real people, complications, uncertainties. There is no fantasy. It would have helped me to understand that it is in fact a fantasy you're looking at, not a reality. But I will tell you that being in movies probably greatly increased the likelihood of my being able to get laid. When I moved out here I felt like the ugliest man in the world. I felt like a fucking pariah. Without a nice car and high-profile job I might as well have been limbless and lying on the corner. And I spent a lot of time trying to date and talk to people unsuccessfully. That does change when you start to see a little success. Look, there's got to be some truth to the notion that when you're rich and famous it's easier to get laid. That's at least partially true--I mean Donald Trump gets laid. When I was in my twenties, you know, I ran out that string pretty good. I won't lie to you. I had a great time. I mean, I will not ever at any point in my life look back and say, "Hey, I didn't avail myself of that male fantasy." But it does get old pretty fast. Now, though, I want the relationship. I want to get married and start a family.

You seem to be in a good place right now.

You know, I gotta tell you, I'm about as happy today as I've ever been. Some people come up to me and say "Look at your life, man, it's so great." And other people go "Hey man, I know you've had a rough year. Hang in there, dude." In the end, I really believe everybody should be as lucky as me. I am really fucking lucky. And maybe I won't be the most successful actor, or the most famous guy in the world. Look, a lot of things turned out differently than I might have hoped in my wildest dreams, but on the whole, I'm really happy with where my life is. Even I'm curious to see what happens to me next.




Thanks to Mimi!!